Dr. Peter McCullough discuss the serious problem with the efficacy of the #Covid19 vaccines and how mass vaccination is creating this runaway train of a pandemic
Interview by Del Bigtree – The Highwire Episode 225, July 22nd
Del Bigtree: To get to the bottom of this pandemic, this supposed surge and discussions about the Delta variant and what effects that may or may not be having… I wanna talk to somebody that has a lot more understanding of this, I’m talking about Dr. Peter McCullough, an internist, a cardiologist, and he’s published over 30 peer-reviewed studies on SARS COV 2, so it is my honor to be joined right now by Dr. McCullough, first of all, thank you for taking the time to join us.
0:01:45.9 Dr. McCullough: Well, thanks for having me.
0:01:48.2 Del Bigtree: Obviously, there’s been a real sort of language, a shift in the media, and once again, as we’re getting used to it as though a script has been sent to every network by somebody, I’m assuming FDA, CDC, NIH, or writing a script, it’s all the unvaccinated… There’s a surge happening because of the unvaccinated, and my question really is, and it’s something that we’ve talked a lot on the high wire about the potential dangers and what’s unknown about the coronavirus vaccine, Pfizer Madera, Johnson & Johnson here in America, but what we really have never gotten deep into is efficacy. We hear that it’s safe and effective, we’ve talked to you about the safety before when you’re on before, but is this vaccine… Does this vaccine do what we think vaccines… When we hear the word vaccine, we hear a product that is given prophylactic ally that keeps me from being infected and keeps me from then transmitting it to someone else. Does this vaccine do that…
0:02:54.1 Dr. McCullough: No, it looks like it doesn’t. We have a really breaking reports from Israel, where about 80% of the adult population over age 20 has received the Pfizer vaccine, and in fact, about 80% of those covid 19 cases, in fact are among the vaccinated individuals. Among those hospitalized in Israel it’s 60% have been fully vaccinated. The same thing is true in the United Kingdom, where they have about 75% vaccinated. In this case with an array of vaccines, Pfizer, Moderna and AstraZeneca, Oh, 40% of those hospitalized in the UK, in fact have been fully vaccinated. What’s going on is the delta variant, and this is one in a sequence of variance that really has arisen as a result of mass vaccination, now the Delta brand has undergone antigenic escape immune escape, if you will, and it’s avoiding the antibodies of the vaccine and causing covid 19 illness in individuals. Fortunately, it’s mild and it’s more easily treated. But the great fear is that the vaccinated will assume they are protected, when in fact, they’re not.
0:04:00.1 Del Bigtree: So you are one of these scientists, and there is a debate about this over this idea that Dr. Gert vanden Bossche really brought to the world, which is this pressure of a vaccine in the middle of a pandemic, giving a vaccine where the antibodies have… Are not robust enough, they haven’t mounted… You don’t have enough of the population that that vaccine has the potential to pressure the virus to escape, to immune escape, to develop qualities that get around the immune system, certainly get around whatever the antibodies are designed by the vaccination. Do you believe that is what we are seeing when they talk about the Delta variant? Because we hear mainstream news here in America saying It’s the unvaccinated that are causing variants like the Delta…
0:04:53.6 Dr. McCullough: Well, that was a paper published last fall by an author, van door that analyzed this and basically let us know there’s probably at least 125 different variants out there. We know that there’s over 1000 potential mutations, but the variants are largely restricted to changes, amino acid changes in the spike protein, and that’s where all the antigenic action is with respect to the vaccines, and then a critical analysis by Nisan and colleagues from the Mayo Clinic in Boston have shown when a population gets to be more than 25% vaccinated, that’s enough of an evolutionary pressure to allow one of these mutant forms to become the dominant strain. So vaccination is reducing the viral diversity and making a more compressed environment with fewer number of mutant strains and allows one to become more dominant.
0:05:40.8 Dr. McCullough: In the case of India, it was the use of the Sinovac vaccine that really prompted the emergence of the Delta variant, and now we’re seeing Sinovac again being the stimulus for the emergence of the Lambda variant out of Peru. So mass vaccination as opposed to targeted vaccination is in a sense, creating the problem of this immune escape of the virus…
0:06:01.6 Del Bigtree: Now, when a lay person, even myself, when I hear vaccine pressure, I get this idea that the vaccine hits a virus and that little virus sitting there like working out saying “I’m gonna beat you” and figures out a way around. But is it that or is it really more of the fact that so many people that take a vaccine have immunity to one strain or one variant, that the other variants always there, it just becomes more prominent because it’s not being stopped by anything, so… Is that a better description of what’s taking place?
0:06:36.0 Dr. McCullough: Yeah, I think it is. I’m an internist and cardiologist, and I’m also trained in epidemiology, and I think as a Professor of Medicine, I’ve basically done an entire year of dedicated covid research and work at this point in time, studying this very carefully, and that’s my understanding – as you articulated – that there is this array of strains out there, and then as each one… – patients can actually be infected with more than one stream at a time, but in a population… Our CDC keeps track of this, the original wild type strain, that the vaccines are coded to by the way, that’s extinct now, now we’re down to six strains, the emerging strain that’s dominant in the United States is the delta variant, which appears to be able to escape all the known vaccines right now, and then second now is the UK variant, which previously was responsive to our vaccines.
0:07:23.9 Del Bigtree: Now, is your opinion, because what I’ve been reading, many studies keep looking at the previously infected, those unvaccinated people that caught the wild virus. We keep seeing amazing numbers for them, studies showing that they’re maintaining their immunity. I think a study out of Israel said that there was only 1% or less than 1% that were being re-infected when nearly 50% of the vaccinated were the ones being in hospitals. Do you believe that the Delta variant is going to be an issue for people that were previously naturally infected by the coronavirus?
0:08:00.3 Dr. McCullough: Now, the Natural Immunity appears to be robust, complete and durable. And when there’s a really solid case of someone documented with infection, they have the characteristic signs of symptoms and they have a positive PCR and antigen test, that person has lifetime what we believe is lifetime durable immunity. There’s never been a second documented case in an individual where the first episode was substantiated. However, the confusion occurs when someone has not had a solid first case, but maybe has had antibody test turn positive and there there is a remote possibility of an infection, so they may have the ambient positive Antibodies to start with. An analysis by Merciu and colleagues, 650000 individuals across the 11 studies, looked at this idea of having a prior infection and not well-defined, and the answer was a 02% chance of infection. Unlike the vaccine where we know even in the spring in the United States, our CDC had a fully documented 10000 cases of vaccine failures by the end of May, so.
0:09:06.3 Dr. McCullough: We know the vaccines were even failing before the Delta variant moved in and the effect… The CDC gave up on this, and they started doing what’s called “asymmetric reporting”, meaning that they were not gonna count vaccine failures in the covid 19 rates, and that’s how their talking points were generated. Americans should know that the CDC by the end of May had announced symmetric reporting of covid 19. This is important to understand! That they were only gonna report covid 19 community cases in those that were unvaccinated, that they were no longer gonna track covid 19 in those who had received vaccination. And if they became aware, if the first test was obtained in the hospital and they were vaccinated, they were trying to link it up with vaccine databases, but otherwise the CDC is intentionally and willfully blind to breakthrough cases for covid 19 vaccination. So that’s what’s created the false and fraudulent talking point that 99% of American cases were unvaccinated. It’s not true, it’s probably roughly 50-50, and that’s what we’re seeing in practice. We have about half the cases are indeed vaccine failures.
0:10:15.9 Del Bigtree: That’s what I’m hearing from my friends in ER and obviously what we’re seeing in other nations around the world, especially Israel, where that’s probably the best test group to be looking at as a nation. So when I see doctors and scientists reporting on the news that the immunity given by the vaccine is better than the natural immunity, can I call that a lie? Is that officially a lie, when we hear that?
0:10:44.3 Dr. McCullough: It’s a false statement and it may be intended to somehow promote the vaccine. But the natural immunity is robust, complete and durable, as you know, it has a full biologic support where we can’t get the infection again and the vaccine is frankly failing. So the vaccine must be a far inferior to natural immunity.
0:11:03.7 Del Bigtree: So now let me ask you this, there’s a lot of people that are skeptical about that right into our show. And they’re saying, Do we really have antibody tests that are capable of delineating the Delta variant? Is this delta variant mythological in that they’re just claiming every infection now is Delta variant when we hear that it’s the dominant strain? What conscience is behind that? Can we trust that science that this is all Delta Variant? As you said, the original wild strain is now… Eradicated, is gone, it’s disappeared. How are they coming to the conclusion it’s the Delta variant and not the Lambda? Are these PCR-tests, which is most of what’s being used, are they accurate enough to determine what variant people are infected with?
0:11:49.4 Dr. McCullough: The variants are determined by genomic sequencing tests. So sequencing test is very different than PCR or antigen tests. They have to rely on sequences in the spike protein and the nucleoid capsule. The United Kingdom is doing a great job. They publish a variant of interest report, the last one was the 17th version on June 25th, where they had fully sequenced about a quarter million infections. And there we knew 90 million… I’m sorry, 250000 infections, and they had 900000 infections that were in fact the Delta variant there. They knew that 42% were fully vaccinated. So they’ve done a wonderful job in sequencing. The CDC does a select sample of sequencing as well, and that’s how we know. The report the last one we had, the CDC was the end of June, we’re down to about 6 variants. The alpha variant was still slightly dominant, I think at about 30%, and Delta was right behind it. We now have reports that Delta has emerged as the dominant strain in the United States.
0:12:49.3 Del Bigtree: But as you’ve said, it appears that it may be more infectious, but not more deadly or dangerous. Is that the correct statement?
0:13:01.5 Dr. McCullough: The Infectivity is determined from in vitro tests using a human cell culture to see if the virus can more effectively invade a human cell, it doesn’t apply to populations now where there are so many individuals who have natural immunity. So I don’t think from an epidemiologic perspective, this is more infectious at all, it’s not going very fast. In Israel, at the peak of their cases, they had 10000 cases a day, they have a thousand cases per day now, it’s mainly Delta. And I’ve told America I’ve been on national TV several times, we’re gonna get a small rise in Delta, but it’s not gonna be anything like what we saw in December. So it doesn’t have… The herd immunity is gonna buffer that Infectivity. It does have a lower mortality rate, that we’re seeing out of the UK. The UK before had a mortality rate of the alpha strain at 1.8% and the Delta at a case fatality rate of 0.2% of the cases that came to attention. But mortality is so highly amenable to early treatment, it’s really hard to report on that. In Delta cases who get early treatment with multi-drug approach, the mortality should be negligible.
0:14:08.5 Del Bigtree: Do you share the concern that was put out by Dr. Geert vanden-Bossche and others, that if we keep pressuring this virus, we’re gonna create an unnatural evolution where the virus tends to want to evolve to become less deadly, it’ll kill its host, I’ll wipe itself out, but under a largely vaccinated community, a virus can live. It can start to have immune escape and we could end up creating a virus that is more deadly. That is maybe vaccine-resistant and more deadly. Do you share any of Dr. Vanden-Bossche’s concerns, or do you think what we’re watching is natural, and this is all gonna sort of just work itself out?
0:14:52.5 Dr. McCullough: Now, the analysis that I mentioned from Nisan and colleagues does suggest the vaccines… Vaccination is influencing the natural ecological biology of the virus. So we’re getting fewer strains, strains that are becoming more dominant as they try to escape the immunity of the vaccine, but so far they’re progressively less virulent, and we haven’t seen this disaster scenario that was passed by some immunologist to suggest we may breed just a monster virus that’s gonna wipe us out. But we are getting signals since the current sets of vaccines don’t work anymore, and we’re starting in a sense to play with mother nature and the overall compression of the diversity of viruses, we’re getting some signals here that we probably should shut down the vaccine program and go ahead and close out the pandemic with early treatment.
0:15:50.0 Del Bigtree: Obviously, you’ve done a lot of discussions about treatment. When I was talking to an ER Doctor, my friend just earlier today, we were talking about that, that we’re seeing this surge, or he’s saying it feels like there’s a surge and it’s in both vaccinated and unvaccinated. Is there a surge? There’s a lot of discussion right now. I’ve heard numbers as high as 70%, higher hospitalization rates in some states across America than we were at last week. As though we could end up in a situation, California just said, everybody put your masks back on, vaccinated or unvaccinated, everybody’s putting their masks back on. There’s a concern, I think amongst those people that finally are feeling free, are out breathing the air. A summer was robbed from us last year, we’re enjoying this one. There’s a concern, we’re gonna go back into these measures of lockdowns and masks because the news really seems big on this surge is happening. Is there a surge? How concerned should we be about it?
0:16:58.2 Dr. McCullough: Well, we have a very low baseline, so any increase from a low baseline will look like a percentage, like a big number in percentage. We are having arise, this was anticipated. It’s happening in the UK, it’s happening in many places around the world. Is happening in Japan right now, but it’s not at the level of a surge where we need to become bad already. In my view, there’s no public health impetus to start wearing masks or going into lockdown. We do need to make… The monoclonal antibody is available, we need to have a lot of messaging on that. We need to have a lot of message on early treatment, protect the high risk seniors, especially because the vaccines are failing. And all these people have gotten the vaccine instead of being protected, now, they’re actually susceptible to the Delta variant.
0:17:44.6 Del Bigtree: When I was talking to my friend, I said, “How bad is the surge?” He says it’s just like a regular flu, it’s not anything more. I said, Yeah, but we’re in the middle of the summer in July. Is it like flu in July? And he said, No, that’s a good point. That is weird, that we are seeing a surge of respiratory virus in the middle of the summer… How would you explain that? That is something I don’t remember in my lifetime, any form of a flue or Coronavirus having any sort of action, especially a surge in the middle of the summer. Have we unnaturally created that? Or what would be the explanation?
0:18:20.2 Dr. McCullough: I Think the most ready explanation – and Geert vanden Bossche did predict this, and that’s carriage. Now, it’s possible that mass vaccination has now allowed those who have been vaccinated to carry the virus and then transmit it to others and hit a susceptible person who can express symptoms. If that’s the case, we may actually have a lot more Delta around and the vaccinated are simply carrying it to one another. You heard about a bunch of law makers who got on an airplane and they were ostensibly well, and when they got off the plane, a couple of people developed covid 19 afterwards. There was a naval shipping vessel that had 3700 sailors on, all vaccinated, ostensibly all fine… And then 100 cases developed over the next few weeks. It brings up the issue of carriage. And this is a little bit disturbing, ’cause if that’s the case, now we’re just gonna carry this virus into summer season and everything else, as opposed to going through some natural oscillation. So I’m a bit concerned about these events that have been reported in the last few weeks.
0:19:24.2 Del Bigtree: We were sold on “the vaccination is our only way forward”. You’ve been an outspoken person on the idea that it was never just vaccinations, that there have been treatments: Hydroxychloroquine, Ivermectin, Budesonide these are all products that have been through some pretty extensive studies now, showing that they have varying degrees of effectiveness, certainly more effective than what we’re seeing from the vaccination. What is our way forward? And are you, in your speaking out the way you have, are you seeing the hospital systems in America listening and starting to use more of these treatments, or is there still this very strange resistance by hospital groups to actually treat the people with things that seem to be working around the world?
0:20:11.3 Dr. McCullough: I think there’s more and more American doctors certainly are joining the circles of early treatment, particularly primary care doctors, independent doctors. There are now national and regional telemedicine services treating doctors. The word is out, America knows that this is a treatable illness, and they’re seeking treatments through a variety of sources, more and more doctors are coming online. The hospital doctors are much slower and they’re still stuck trying to give Remdesivir and other things that really don’t work in the hospital, and they’re too late. So we need more to jump on board with early treatment, it’s supported by the “Association of American Physicians and Surgeons”, another leading group called the “Frontline Critical Care [Alliance]”. These are really leading groups now for early treatment, and the drugs have been flowing in the United States now for a month. Basically millions of Americans and avoided hospitalization and death with the use of early treatment. No single drug works alone, but they certainly work well in combinations.
0:21:07.5 Del Bigtree: When we look at these numbers that are touted in the news, over 600000 killed by SARS COV 2, which makes it arguably one of the most deadly pathogens ever to sweep America. Do you trust those number? How do you as a physician, someone that has, I believe, always been pro vaccine, you’re a part of working in the system, you believe in medicine. Do you believe those numbers? Are we really seeing the death of over 600000 people from this virus?
0:21:42.3 Dr. McCullough: The CDC acknowledges itself on its web pages that 90% of individuals have significant contributing illnesses to the death. About 10% looks like it’s Covid 19 alone. In pediatrics, I think, we’re almost down… Dr. Macri from Hopkins has an analysis that was presented this week suggesting maybe we’re down to one child in the United States died of Covid-19 itself, all the other children had contributing diseases like leukemia, cystic fibrosis, etc. I’ve never seen a viral illness like this, I’ve treated far more than 100 patients, I’ve advised on many hundreds if not thousands of individuals. There’s viral replication, cytokine storm and thrombosis. It appears to be a really difficult illness to treat late, and it seems so easy to treat early.
0:22:31.8 So my best advice is age over 50, multiple medical problems: Treat early and we can avoid death, whatever it’s cause attribution.
0:22:38.0 Del Bigtree: The President of the United States. Jen Psaki, [they] have made statements this week, pretty strong statements, that people that speak against the effectiveness, like we’re doing of this vaccine right now, speak against the safety, to say anything that is not safe and effective that they’re essentially… We’re killing people. I think Biden may have backed it off at one point, he said Facebook allowing this information to be shared are murderers. That is very, very strong language from the president of a free country, this administration, not to get political about it, but this is the nation we live in… And we are seeing at the same time, this rhetoric is coming out discussions of door-to-door censors based on your vaccination status, it’s clear when we look at the door knickers, they’re gonna be taking information… Have you been back in NATO? Have you not… Dr. Tony Fauci has said he supports mandates in businesses and universities pushing this vaccine, which you and I now clearly are discussing is not doing the job. So why would we push it…
0:23:46.2 Del Bigtree: You wanna wind it down, they seem to wanna go further. How do you see this coming to a head between really two different medical or science perspectives and the most powerful position in the world and the President of the United States…
0:24:02.7 Dr. McCullough: Well, here we are, Dell, We are right at 50% of Americans don’t want the vaccine, 50% of Americans have not been fully vaccinated, the vaccine centers have started decline mid-April, they’ve been empty in May and June, and now into July, there are inducements, and bribes, and lotteries, and mandates. It’s pretty clear, Americans don’t want the vaccine. The word is out, they understand it’s not working. They see their relatives getting sick after vaccination, they’re seeing record numbers of vaccine related fatalities and injuries, and so this is gonna be just an unbelievably tense struggle between, well, of the people and those who really wanna force the vaccine on the population, on the remainder of the population, when the vaccine is not effective and it’s not safe.
0:24:56.2 Del Bigtree: What… Just to wrap it up, because I get asked this all the time, What am I supposed to do as a citizen? So many people call in: “my employer is forcing it”. We just don’t know what we do in this situation, and we wanna believe in our country, but we can tell that our leadership is – You’ve just pointed out. It’s clear to anyone looking at it – is wrong on a very, very important topic. Some of us feel disempowered at this time. What is your recommendation to people, someone’s gonna come up to the door and knock, ask them their status, they’re gonna be moving into a space that doesn’t look like the United States of America, as we know it. Lists are being made. What do you want… What do you think is the message we need to put out to American citizens, especially on how we move forward and get through this very… As you said it, I think it’s gonna be a very complicated time?
0:25:50.3 Dr. McCullough: I think Americans are gonna really need to make their voice known through the phone and through messaging of their leaders. So many Americans I talk to, I get these desperate emails and messages too, Del, and they say: “Dr. McCullough, can you help me with a mandate or what have you?”… And I said, Well, Have you messaged your company? Or have you messaged how you feel to your university? And the answer is “No, I haven’t, I’m afraid” ____ that personal fear, the fear of reprisal and actually make their voices known to the people we are talking about… They haven’t gotten enough resistance, they haven’t gotten enough negative feedback, they actually think they’re doing the right thing by mass vaccinating the population. And they need to hear the voices of Americans, about half of us, basically say, Listen, we need to stop…
0:26:31.1 Del Bigtree: I agree with you. It’s time for people to speak their truth. To stand in their truth, be bold in their truth and make it difficult… Right, I’m not talking about doing anyone any harm, but stand! It’s time to resist things that are not American, and rights that are truly ours, given to us by God. If we don’t stand for it, stand up for it, nobody will. Dr. McCulloughll, I know you’re racing off, you’re a very busy man, and we really appreciate your knowledge and you’re taking the time. And most especially, I wanna thank you for really putting it on the line, so many doctors and scientists been afraid to speak out. Many of them speak to me privately, the more of you that step forward and speak the way you have in media, I think you’re really making a difference, and your changing the world. It’s an honor to know you. I hope you go down in history and it shines brightly upon you as we make our way through this…
0:27:25.6 Dr. McCullough: Thank you. Del, same to you!
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0:27:39.1 Del Bigtree: We’ll see you there.
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